Joe: 00:14

Welcome back to another episode of the Freedom Talks podcast, everybody. This is your host, Joe Ogden. And today, we've got a special guest, a new therapist here who started in Fox Point, who we're super excited to have. We have doctor Charlie Coonan.

Charlie: 00:30

Hey, everyone. How's it going? Good to be here.

Joe: 00:33

Charlie has been with us now for, would you say, a little over a month now, Charlie?

Charlie: 00:38

Yeah. Well, coming up on 2 months. Oh, yeah.

Joe: 00:40

Now Charlie just graduated, from PT school in 20 what is it? 2024, so 2024 in May, from Carroll University, which now at Freedom, we're pretty represented by Carroll grads.

Charlie: 00:52

Yeah. We, all the the rooms here are themed, and I think we need to make a Carroll themed room.

Joe: 00:57

Yeah. Yeah. That's the next thing we need because, I also graduated from Carroll, and then we have Nicole who used to work here from Carroll. Diane. Diane's a Carroll grad.

Joe: 01:09

That's right. Charlie, tell us a little bit about just kind of, you know, where you're from. Give us a little background, and then we'll take it from there.

Charlie: 01:16

Alright. So I am from Appleton area, Little Chute. If you have ever driven on Highway 41, you've passed it. So I lived lived there all all of my childhood, never really moved. Went to elementary through high school in that area, and then decided somewhere along the way when I was in high school that I wanted to do physical therapy and set my eyes on Carol at at you know, toward the end of of high school after I got some time to shadow with a physical therapist.

Charlie: 01:46

A family friend of mine was nice enough to let me do that. And I was drawn to Carol's program because of that direct admission style program where you would get your degree in 6 years as opposed to the more traditional route, which would be 7 years. And on top of that, I I was a big soccer player my whole life from you know, I think I started when I was 4 years old and then wanted to continue doing that in college. So I had the opportunity to do both of those things at Carroll. And, so went there, started in 2018 with my undergrad.

Charlie: 02:23

So it was a lot of fun doing all of that stuff along the way. And I played played soccer for 2 seasons at Carroll, and I eventually, stopped playing. Just kinda fizzled out of the sport itself. Had a lot of fun when I was there. But along the way, I developed a a passion it started with cycling, actually.

Charlie: 02:47

So I was told myself that when when I was done playing soccer, I thought it'd be fun to have a bike and start start riding that on the roads. So in what would that be? 20 20, I'd, ended I stopped playing soccer early that year. And then right around the start of the pandemic is when I got my bike. So I I was able to get out, and put a lot of miles in during during the pandemic, which led to about a year, maybe a little bit longer, of getting into triathlon, actually.

Charlie: 03:21

So I picked up cycling, and then shortly after, swimming and running came with it. And over that that year, year and a half or so, I I ended up doing 2 Olympic distance triathlons and ended that sort of stunt or stint with with triathlon with doing a half Ironman in Madison. That was around the same time. I think that half Ironman was the second weekend after I had started PT school. So called it quits on triathlon at that point because I was starting PT school and pretty pretty busy and rigorous in that program.

Charlie: 03:58

So I didn't really feel feel like I had the time or energy to train through different disciplines. But along the way, it was more it was more than just learning how to do those three disciplines and how to train. I looked at strength training and with my education and my undergrad being exercise science, as well as Spanish. But the exercise science really led me more down the road in learning on my own about, sports physiology and nutrition and strength training and, you know, all sorts of just what it means to be a holistic, well rounded athlete. And so that's really where I think my passion comes in with with those sports that I was doing is coaching myself, as far as the programming, but also just trying to learn more and more about, you know, what does nutrition look like for an athlete?

Charlie: 04:52

What is sleep supposed to look like? How should you program to be healthy, you know, not even just for 1 season, but for years years at a time? And I think that's why I'm so drawn to these endurance sports. But after that that half Ironman, so at the beginning of of PT school for me, I switched just to running because it felt like the easiest of the 3 to continue doing. But got pretty into running for for the last few years, and I've worked my way up to, the marathon distance is the one I have the most experience with.

Charlie: 05:31

It's a very fun distance to race. And so I've done, 3 of those now. And then I've done some shorter races, which were mostly in preparation for the the marathon distance races. And then last fall, I did one ultra marathon, which was it's called the fall 50, so it's up in up in Door County. And, that was that was a lot of fun to train and to prep for.

Charlie: 05:56

And so since then, I've gotten I've turned back toward the marathon distance. So in a nutshell, that's really my athletic history, and we started to touch on on on my schooling. But, that's kind of where I'm at now with with athletics and why I am so drawn to sport and movement and and things like that.

Joe: 06:16

I mean, I think that's a pretty, you know, relative thing that I I would argue, for most of us that are physical therapists, we have that athletic background, and then we transition to doing something else to kind of fill that void. I mean, I tell people this all the time. When I stopped playing college baseball, I remember sitting in my dorm room or college apartment at the time and just, like, really thinking, like, like, what do I do with all this time now?

Charlie: 06:42

Yeah.

Joe: 06:43

And I mean, I dabbled with, you know, more of that bodybuilding lifting for a while, then I got kinda fizzled out. I tried CrossFit for a little bit, and now Charlie and I both. And now that Charlie works here, it sparked me up even more because I have someone to talk about endurance stuff with, which makes it, you know, a whole lot more fun. But Charlie and I both now are, you know, diving deep into that endurance realm, which we'll do another podcast just specifically talking about, endurance athletes and a lot of the things that go into that both mentally, physically, nutrition and stuff. But I think a lot of physical therapists kind of fall in that category where you have this athletic background or some sort of athletic background, and you still transition that to your everyday life.

Joe: 07:23

Mhmm.

Charlie: 07:23

Yeah. I think if you talk to any physical therapist, we'd all just you know, we move daily in one way or another. It's just we're the movement experts. So the I think if you are gonna talk the talk, you should walk the walk as well. And so just on top of on top of treating people, I think we can be role models as well.

Charlie: 07:43

If we have younger people who, you know, are very impressionable, and they can see what we do, here in the clinic. But then also, they just get to know us, and they see that we, you know, we do a lot of movement of our own. And then I think we can also, instill some of those habits, into, you know, anyone that really comes through comes through our doors. But, yeah, I think I think walking the walk is a is a big part of what it means to be a physical therapist.

Joe: 08:11

Yeah. No. I agree. Charlie, tell everyone a little bit about, just kind of touch base on some of the clinical rotations you did in school because I think you have a really good variety of experiences that is really good knowledge and really good practice that I really like now a part of the doctorate program as I I I believe that we are a lot more ready right out of school to treat patients than it was years ago.

Charlie: 08:36

Yeah. Yeah. And so the like what you said, I've heard that too. Obviously, I graduated in a different time, so can't speak for what it what people felt like maybe who were coming out with the bachelor's or the or the master's in in the field. But, let's see.

Charlie: 08:51

So in the program, we did we did 4 total clinical rotations, and I'll speak to why I think that that was a really good model. But my very first one, 6 weeks, was at an inpatient rehab hospital in in Utah, just north of Salt Lake City. And there, I think that very first rotation, there's so much you haven't learned yet. And that setting that setting wasn't they told me I was gonna be the last student that they take who is on their 1st rotation just because the learning curve at an inpatient rehab where they specialize in neurological conditions was a bit steep for someone who was, you know, not even halfway through their schooling. But more than anything, I just learned how to work with people there.

Charlie: 09:39

So I spent a lot of time, working with people, with all sorts of conditions. A lot of them had neurological things. So if you're not familiar with inpatient rehab, it's a place where people go after after an acute injury, a lot of the times, neurological in nature. But they're not they're stable, so they don't need intensive care, but they are not safe enough to go home for one reason or another. So they come and they do therapy for 3 plus hours a day, and that's split between PT, OT, and speech.

Charlie: 10:12

And so a lot of my patients, I was with them for an hour at a time, and we we covered tons of things on that rotation. But more than anything, just because I was new to the field, I think I just gained an appreciation for how to work with people, how to talk to people, and how to just be be in a clinic and see what the flow is like. After that, I I was done on the inpatient side of things. My second rotation was an outpatient clinic, very similar to to what we do here, and that one was in Colorado Springs. So that one was a bit longer.

Charlie: 10:41

It was about 8 weeks or so. And being out in Colorado was a lot of fun. I think it brought in a very active population. You know, I had I had one patient who lived in his van, and he just would, you know, pull up to the parking lot. And he would come to therapy in the morning, and then he would spend the rest of the day in the mountains.

Charlie: 10:58

It's it's a very different crowd out there, but, you know, it just brings in different injuries, really. So that one that one was great. I had a great CI out there. My 3rd rotation, which, the very last semester is when you're really done with your didactic work and all you have left is some of the clinical experiences. I went to, it's called Kinetic Sports Medicine and Performance, which is over in Delafield.

Charlie: 11:21

And there, it was that was a very unique and enjoyable experience. I think one thing that's very different about that clinic is that they don't run through insurance at all. So they had a lot more freedom or different different, opportunities, I should say, to work with people for 60 to 90 minutes at a time. And they had they were very sports focused over there, so they had, lots of different equipment, things that were really geared toward the athletes. So we I had the opportunity to do things like, running analysis with some 3 d systems.

Charlie: 11:56

I used force plates. We used a lot of dynamometry. And so I think what I what I gained most from that one was a lot of a lot of exercise prescription, really, and just thinking critically about how you really get someone to be healthy in the long term and get them back to a high level of function. You know, you have someone who comes in after a surgery. A lot of those people start in the same spot where there's a lot going on.

Charlie: 12:25

They can't do much at the beginning. But, for someone who has the desire to get back to a walking program, the ceiling's a little bit lower. Someone who wants to get back to running, jumping, cutting, you have to you have to bridge that gap somehow. And so that's where I think I I learned a lot was the the the higher level exercise prescription. Now my last rotation was with another outpatient orthopedic clinic.

Charlie: 12:50

And this one was Robert's Physical Therapy out in Plainfield, Wisconsin. And this one this one is very unique in that it was, it it was only my CI there. He was the only therapist at the clinic. It was it was basically a a double wide trailer that they turned into a clinic. So, they had nothing fancy there.

Charlie: 13:09

They had the basic equipment. And, there, I worked really closely with my CI, and we did a lot of work with clinical decision making, really thinking critically about what's going on, why it could be there, and just test, retest, reassessing all of the time, learning to peel back the layers of of what's going on with someone. And I think that that really helped me take a step up and prepared me to to transition to working full time and and by myself. So I think I, you know, covered a lot of a lot of different realms with my rotations, which is why which is why I was thankful that my program did 4 different rotations. And along the way, I had a lot of great mentors.

Charlie: 13:55

So I felt I felt pretty prepared, not hopefully, not in an arrogant way, but I felt pretty prepared to start with my own caseload here. I think the transition was was pretty smooth, and I think a lot of that has to do with the the education that I had.

Joe: 14:10

Yeah. I mean, from my perspective, and I don't think I'm, you know, any special therapist at all. I just like to show up, do my job, make people feel better, and then go home to my family. Like every other therapist, I mean, I think you're doing a fantastic job, you know, in everything. And I can't speak of other universities, but I really think the orthopedics, department at Carroll and and doctor Bennett does a just a fantastic job.

Joe: 14:39

What I like, and it sounds like you and I had very similar experiences in the outpatient world, is seeing different parts of orthopedic physical therapy, I think, for me, has really helped create kind of this whole picture of what we want. To me, I wanna make sure that my clinical decision making and my manual skills are enough to open the door so that the exercise prescription can maximize the patient's potential.

Charlie: 15:06

Exactly.

Joe: 15:07

And I I I wish to they could change this a little bit personally. Like, if you know you wanna be an orthopedic physical therapist or if you know you wanna be an inpatient physical therapist, both are very, you know, needed in the physical therapy world. But, okay, let's give you 4 different outpatient locations so that you can see the different parts of what orthopedic physical therapy is

Charlie: 15:30

Mhmm.

Joe: 15:30

So that we create kind of this well rounded, treatment approach, which it sounds like you and I both had very similar experiences on our rotations.

Charlie: 15:38

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I I think I resonate with what you said about, having a strong foundation in in the manual side of things, really to just keep people started, create some buy and make them feel better.

Charlie: 15:51

And then after that, we can we can really make the changes that are gonna keep them healthy long term. Yeah. And I I I think, what you said about, you know, if you know you wanna do outpatient, trying to get 4 outpatient locations, but make sure they're different

Joe: 16:05

Mhmm.

Charlie: 16:05

Would be totally totally useful. Not that not that there's, anything wrong with doing a similar rotation, from one side to another, your CI is gonna be a lot different. But generally speaking, I think the the the patient load that comes through those doors would be pretty similar. Yeah. So diversifying is always a good idea.

Charlie: 16:27

Yeah. Yeah.

Joe: 16:27

And I I mean, I think to seeing a a clinic too that has a high volume, caseload just because it does exist, even if you know you don't wanna treat like that, I think if you can if you can survive in that environment, taking a step back with longer sessions is it really makes you realize, like, how much you can get done in a session when you're not hustling, trying to, you know, get 8,001 things done in 30 minutes before you see someone else.

Charlie: 16:56

Mhmm. Yeah. And even if it, you know, even if it's something that you decide you don't like, I think that there's there's almost more value in knowing what you don't like Yeah. As a as opposed to knowing what you do like. It's gonna either one is gonna guide you.

Charlie: 17:10

And so there's value in that too even if you run into something that you've you decide you don't like.

Joe: 17:15

Yeah. No. I agree. Mhmm. Charlie, tell, everyone a little bit about, you know, the patient population that you like working with.

Joe: 17:23

Obviously, at Freedom, we see, you know, a large percentage of low back pain individuals, but also kinda dive into kind of the specific patient populations that you like to work with too.

Charlie: 17:37

Mhmm. Yeah. Like you said, it's it's it's pretty broad here

Joe: 17:41

Yeah.

Charlie: 17:41

At least or especially starting out where I don't have any specific certifications to go deeper in one thing or another. I'm pretty happy right now to see just about anything orthopedic wise. I would say the the knee joint is one of my favorite or the knee complex is one of my favorite areas to treat. So total knees, knee pain, anything that stems higher or lower, like, lower extremity in general is probably where I really like to work. I feel pretty confident in in anything hip and below.

Charlie: 18:12

I think that goes hand in hand with with, treating runners, which is one population I I hope to learn more about and do more of someday. But I think in general, I I like manual therapy a lot. Manual therapy, I think, is a great way to create buy in. I think it's a great way to get people over the hurdle of pain, which really opens up the doors to to get back to where you wanna be. I think manual therapy is a very important part of my practice, and I do manual therapy with just about everyone that comes in.

Charlie: 18:48

The this the type of patient I like to work with are people who have some sort of motivation to get better. I if even if there's just an ember of motivation in someone, I feel like I can take that and really run with it. I think one of the best things I can do for people is is provide education about whatever they they need to hear or want to learn more about. Because when we're done with therapy and we shake hands and say goodbye, my goal is that they won't need me again because I've taught them to care for themselves or I've helped them help themselves. So and and and a lot of that comes from people being willing or open to learning to to what I have to say.

Charlie: 19:35

So, yeah, I guess I really like treating lower extremity. I really love manual therapy, but I also love the education piece of what we do in physical therapy.

Joe: 19:45

I think that's something that's huge too. And I tell people all the time too. I look at my job as a physical therapist working with a patient. It's it's them and I working together to improve their condition. I I think we can we can do it for them, so to speak, but we only can take that so far.

Joe: 20:03

Mhmm. That will plateau out at a certain point.

Charlie: 20:05

Yeah.

Joe: 20:06

If we can get buy in and work together and educate them on whether it's an in-depth at home exercise program or an in-depth knowledge of, okay, this pain is good, this is bad, this is how you work through this, this is how you do this, or when to come back or when to work through it. I mean, I think that just serves the patient such a value Mhmm. That you can't pay for Mhmm. And insurance can't pay for.

Charlie: 20:29

Yeah. I agree. I agree. And that's that's always an area that there there will always be room for improvement with is what I know and can convey to other people. I think what we us, you know, being based off of research and evidence, what we know and what we share with people is always gonna be changing.

Charlie: 20:48

So, you know, everything I I teach people is always subject to change, and it's my job to keep up on on new things and keep myself informed so that I can give people the best education that we have right now.

Joe: 21:00

Yeah. Charlie, I'm gonna assume that, outside of work, you don't just look at research studies on physical therapy all the time.

Charlie: 21:09

I do not.

Joe: 21:10

And I know you touched on it at the beginning, but, give us a little insight on some of the things you like to do outside of work, more of the personal side of Charlie.

Charlie: 21:18

Yeah. So, well, first thing is well, my my family's still up in Appleton, so I I go visit every every so often. I really I really like going home to visit. My family's up there. My girlfriend's family's up there.

Charlie: 21:35

So I'm living over in Waukesha right now. And so with my girlfriend, we go on a lot of walks, and we have a dog now. So he comes with, and, I really like the walk shot area. There's a lot of, you know, cool things to do around there, restaurants, live music, things like that. So, those are some of the some of the things I enjoy doing.

Charlie: 21:56

And then I would say some of my hobbies. A big one is is running and and training for for races. So that's a combination of the running that I program for myself, which, depending on the week, is 6 up to sometimes 12 hours or more in a week. So that takes up quite a bit of time. On top of that, I I like to do some strength training.

Charlie: 22:20

That is a much less or a much smaller time commitment than than the running that I like to do.

Joe: 22:25

We just got Charlie back in a strength training a couple weeks ago.

Charlie: 22:28

Yes. Yes. I'm pretty stubborn, and, I am trying to not get a gym membership. But all I have at my apartment complex right now is a cable machine. So I'm doing my best to just get creative and use that to get me through and get the get the adaptations I need to be a strong runner.

Charlie: 22:45

It's going pretty well so far. I'd it it'd be fun to share some ideas with with some patients here that that could use it, but I've come up with some pretty pretty fun exercises you can do with the cable machine. And outside of that, I I, I'm really I'm really into coffee as well. I spent some time in grad school working at a a cafe down downtown in Waukesha, and I just I don't know. They sent me to coffee school, and so I learned how to taste coffee.

Charlie: 23:12

And, I just I don't know. That's something I look forward to every morning.

Joe: 23:16

I didn't know you're a coffee snob.

Charlie: 23:18

I know. I well, here's the thing. I will never complain about having, like, Folgers or, maybe the stuff that we have here. Never gonna complain about it. I don't wanna get to snobby level.

Charlie: 23:28

But I at least know a lot about it and, how to brew how to brew a good cup. But always looking to get better at that too.

Joe: 23:35

Wow. There's depths of your personality. I did not know that, Charlie.

Charlie: 23:38

Yeah.

Joe: 23:39

And Charlie kinda hinted at it too, and and we're gonna talk about this in a future podcast, because Charlie's really good at, and him and I both have taken this, some of the endurance coaching. I've taken a lot of the running, analysis and and how to diagnose and treat it. Charlie does a lot of the coaching more than I do now, and I do more of the strength programming. So we're gonna kinda tag team back and forth, in the next podcast. Just kinda breaking down the treatment of a runner, and then talk about kind of our own implementation of that stuff because I think I can see it.

Joe: 24:13

We haven't said it specifically, but I have a feeling that Charlie and I are gonna piggyback off of each other moving forward. Charlie's got a big race coming up, self paced race on Monday. How many miles, Charlie?

Charlie: 24:23

35 is the goal.

Joe: 24:25

And then, Charles so Charlie's doing 35 in next week. I'm running a marathon in or excuse me, October. Charlie's running a marathon the week after.

Charlie: 24:35

Yep.

Joe: 24:36

And then we'll see what's going on for 2025 but I think Charlie's already talking me into doing some sort of ultra

Charlie: 24:43

Big plans.

Joe: 24:44

In 25. So we're gonna kinda dive deep into that because I think the runner and Charlie and I have talked about this a lot. But the runner is one of the most under treated and undereducated, especially the education part, athlete that we have. So we're gonna dive deeper into that in the next episode.

Charlie: 24:59

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Joe: 25:01

Anything else to add, Charlie?

Charlie: 25:03

No. I think Or

Joe: 25:04

anything else you want patients to know about you?

Charlie: 25:06

I think, no. Just come get on the schedule. I like I like working with everyone. I think, I think that has been I've been off to a great start. I'm really enjoying working here at Freedom Fox Point, busy clinic.

Charlie: 25:19

So tons of stuff for me to learn. If I'm not if I'm not with someone, I'm overhearing, you know, what what you guys are doing with people or I'm seeing some techniques. So I think, just being here has already been a a a great, you know, addition to my education and also my practice. So I think that things are going well over here, but, come see me.

Joe: 25:43

And, again, Charlie's here in Fox Point, are one of our bigger locations. If anyone has anything else that you need to be seen for, we also have clinics in Brookfield, Grafton, and Mukwonago. Charlie fits in really nicely here at Fox Point, and we promise that, you'll be in really good hands if you do come and see Charlie. Thanks Thanks for listening to another episode of the Freedom Talks podcast, everybody. We'll see everybody in next week's episode.