Joe Ogden: 00:14

Welcome back to another episode of the Freedom Talks Podcast, everybody. This is your host, Joe Ogden. And we're here with a special guest today. We actually have a patient of ours, Ryan Webster. Ryan, good morning.

Ryan: 00:25

Good morning.

Joe Ogden: 00:27

Now I've been working at Freedom for just over 3 years now, and I feel like I've seen Ryan pretty much routinely in the clinic for that time period.

Ryan: 00:37

Yeah. I've been here for 3 years.

Joe Ogden: 00:38

Tell us a little bit, Ryan, about, you know, kind of what brought you to Freedom and anything you wanna share as far as, you know, who you're seeing your experiences, with the therapist and staff here as well.

Ryan: 00:47

So I started coming here in the summer of 2021. And that summer, I went around and I interviewed 8 physical therapists because I've been in physical therapy for 15 years. And physical therapy has been the center of my life for those years because I've had chronic pain. So I had already been through about, I don't know, 24, 25 rounds of physical therapy over 15 years, and I hadn't gotten better. In fact, I've I'd gotten worse.

Ryan: 01:13

So I went around to various clinics, and I interviewed 8 physical therapists and had them assess me. And I said, how do you think do you think you can help me, and what would you do? And I chose the 2 that I felt most confident in. One was Nina here, and then, I chose someone at another clinic named Lydia. And those 2 therapists, along with my pain psychologist, who I'd started with her maybe 6 months before that, those three people, became my team for, the last the last 3 years.

Joe Ogden: 01:51

And you've been seeing Nina pretty routinely during that time, haven't you?

Ryan: 01:54

Yeah. So we started, actually, the 1st month or 2, we were once a week. And I came to Nina with a list of my physical challenges, different body parts, which was about, like, 12 different areas.

Joe Ogden: 02:05

Yeah.

Ryan: 02:05

And we started at the, you know, the first couple of months we were working on the the top 2, the most challenging ones. And then I had the idea that maybe meet twice a week and once a week work on the challenging ones. And another time a week, start from the bottom, try to pick some lower hanging fruit maybe, and chip away at some of the other problem areas in my body. So most of the time, we've been twice a week. We did twice a week for probably a couple years, and then we started, spreading it out more.

Ryan: 02:45

And at this point, I'm 3 years out. Now it's we're meeting once a month.

Joe Ogden: 02:48

Okay. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about because I I think it's really good that you call it interviewing, which it is. But I don't Right. I I think there's different providers for different people quite honestly.

Joe Ogden: 03:00

I think sometimes we get stuck in this even if from a provider standpoint. Yeah. Anybody who walks in the room, I have to be able to treat you. And sometimes whether it's personality or treatment methods, just kinda the way we view rehab in general, sometimes that doesn't mesh. And I think that's perfectly fine.

Joe Ogden: 03:17

Tell us a little bit about kind of the things that you were looking for during that process of finding the right therapist or the right fit for you or even some of the needs that you thought were important for you?

Ryan: 03:26

That's a great question. I mean, I my I've been in physical therapy for so long. It's a trauma. My experience in physical therapy has been a trauma. Over 15 years, I've worked with 69 doctors, and I've had now 29 physical therapists.

Ryan: 03:44

And I've tried hundreds of treatments, and I not only didn't get better, I only got worse. So with physical therapy, I would often you know, when I was maybe 5 or 10 therapists in, I would I would just call around and, you know, the person at the front desk would set me up with someone, and I would meet that person. That person would, like, do their best to help me, but I would you know, I'd spend 6 months or a year or 2 years and not get better. And at the end, that was just the end. There was no accountability.

Ryan: 04:18

There was no sort of apology or, like, direction to go. I would just get passed on to another therapist.

Joe Ogden: 04:23

Yeah.

Ryan: 04:24

And so I was looking for someone well, number 1, I can now tell when I meet with someone by their face and their body if they're freaked out by me. And I look for people that were not freaked out. And when I interviewed those 8, there were some that were, and I could tell right away this person cannot help me. So I think that was number 1. I was looking for someone, like, who could help me.

Ryan: 04:46

And I wanna know what what it was, how this would be different from all the other rounds of fair physical therapy that I've done. Like, what what do you have that I have not done before?

Joe Ogden: 04:55

Right.

Ryan: 04:56

And another thing that the 2 that I chose expressed was a sense of empathy for my situation. They were the ones that that said, wow. You've been through so much. I'm I'm sorry for what you've been through, and that was important to me. And I also felt like I needed people that I could communicate effectively with.

Ryan: 05:23

So those were maybe my main criteria.

Joe Ogden: 05:26

I think we kinda brushed over. If you feel comfortable, give us just a little background of kind of, your situation and kinda what what brought you to physical therapy in the first place.

Ryan: 05:35

Right. Yeah. So, I've had I've had pain for a long time. It started, 15 or 20 years ago in in one body part in my left hip. And, over the years, I had more and more painful body parts, till when I arrived with Nina, the list was about 12.

Ryan: 05:56

So chronic widespread pain, I've been given various explanations for the different parts and why they were hurting, and I would do the treatments, and the treatments would would never work. So, you know, I did I mean, I can't even go into the billions of things that I tried, but operations and medications and therapies and everything you can name. And I that's a general overview. Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 06:24

And I I mean, I feel like your your situation is a lot like what other people go through as well. I think more than we care to admit, I would argue even for the health care industry itself. I think a lot of us wake up every day and we wanna help everybody, and sometimes that's not the reality depending on, you know, various different, you know, variables that go into it for all people in medicine. What have been some of the things that you've noticed that have really helped you? Whether it's provider characteristic or just specific interventions that you've really noticed that have been super helpful.

Ryan: 06:58

Right. So in the journey of 15 years, the first 12 years, I can almost point to nothing. There was nothing that I did that was helpful. Then the last 3 years, I've gotten way better. I have a whole different life now.

Ryan: 07:13

Team of the last 3 years, this has turned my whole life around. I can I can function? So I I should say, I my capacity just for basic functioning got worse and worse over the years. So when I started with Nina, like, I could only walk for, like, 5 minutes. I couldn't sit down at all, and I couldn't stand up for very long.

Ryan: 07:38

Over the course of of my journey, like, I I gave everything up. I had to give up my careers, my hobbies, my relationships. For most of it, I could for most of the years, I could work I could work part time. I was working about 20 hours a week, and that was okay. And I was like, this is this is my life, and I can do this.

Ryan: 07:55

And then I went to a therapy in 2020 that made me way worse, and I came out on the other end of that therapy. And I could only work 2 hours a week after that, and I was laying in bed. So I spent a couple years where I mostly laid down, and that was my life. And at that point, I was okay with that. Like, that was a hard life.

Ryan: 08:17

So there's a couple years after that therapy that I could only work 2 hours a week, and I was laying down most of the time. I went from, like, laying down part time for many years to laying down full time. And at that point, that was okay. That was my life. I I still pursued therapies.

Ryan: 08:31

I was still trying to get better, but I was also just accepting, like, there was no reason to think my life would ever be different or change because I had already done everything. There was nowhere else to go. So I did I went around interviewing those PTs, just because that's what I always do. I'm just, oh, let me just do my best to, you know, get better and function as well as I can. And I did not expect to be able to shift from the way I've been living to to now.

Ryan: 08:59

I can I can walk around? It's amazing. I walk around on the streets. I sit like, I couldn't I couldn't sit down like this.

Joe Ogden: 09:07

Do this podcast?

Ryan: 09:08

This is, like, this is a miracle that I'm doing this. And now everything I do is just it's so fun. I'm having an awesome time right now because I could never do this. I sit like, I socialize with people. I go to the like, I'll have a cup of coffee with someone.

Ryan: 09:25

I couldn't do that before. I would just try to, like, make it through the grocery store, and that was hard for me. Before. I would just try to, like, make it through the grocery store, and that was hard

Joe Ogden: 09:29

for me. And people would run

Ryan: 09:29

into me and wanna talk to me, and that was so painful to stand there and talk to them. And now I stand there and talk to people, and I just have a great time. Everything I do is just a great time now because my body can function. So it's amazing the turnaround that I've had.

Joe Ogden: 09:49

What would you say because I think it's also hard to stay motivated to keep finding different providers, especially Yeah. Before, you know, coming to NENA.

Ryan: 09:58

Right.

Joe Ogden: 10:00

Not having success at all. Right.

Ryan: 10:02

I mean,

Joe Ogden: 10:02

I think it's one thing to find a little bit of success, but it sounds like you had nothing Right. At all successful. How did you find the motivation to keep finding new providers and just find something?

Ryan: 10:12

It was an insane effort. Honestly, like, the last 3 years, like, even internally, like, 99% of my thoughts are saying, this is stupid. Why am I doing this? And the therapy this particular therapy is it's all day every day. It's a way of approaching life and doing painful things all day every day.

Ryan: 10:40

And after a year of it of, okay. This is my new team. Let's do this stuff. After a year, I was, like, 5% better, and that's how it always goes. It's like, oh, yeah.

Ryan: 10:50

Okay. Maybe 5% better. After a year and a half, I was like, okay. Maybe I'm, like, 10 or 15% better. And now now I'm, like, 70% better.

Ryan: 11:02

It's a huge shift. So all that time, especially the 1st year or year and a half, I'm working extremely hard, and it what's happening is what always happens in therapy is I do the stuff that the people tell me to do, and I do not really get better. And so the thoughts that come up for me are, yeah, this is stupid. I'm working with this person. They're just gonna quit on me at the end after I don't get better, and I'll just go to the next person.

Ryan: 11:31

So it it feels like the same journey I've been walking all the years. Yeah. So most of my thoughts are occupied with that. At the same time, I'm continuing to do this stuff, and I found a tiny bit of me that believed this could actually be helpful. And I I just had to keep digging so deep to find that tiny bit and to foster that in the midst of the extreme challenge that every day was to continue the therapy.

Joe Ogden: 12:07

What would you say has been the the change that's been the most crucial to make this improvement? Or what has Nina done different? Or even what has freedom done different that you haven't experienced before that you think has been a contributing factor to this positive growth?

Ryan: 12:24

Yeah. The main thing is having a team approach to my treatment, these three people. And each person contributed something that was extremely valuable. Even in the pain psychology realm, the this wasn't my first this is my 5th pain psychologist, so I cycle through those the way I cycle through PTs.

Joe Ogden: 12:48

Yeah.

Ryan: 12:50

But she was really she has been really special. And, Nina and my other therapists, like, also had special things, and they it all came together to be able to produce a positive result for me, which I still I can't believe this is my story that this is what's happened.

Joe Ogden: 13:11

What would you say has been different at in your experience at Freedom compared to other places?

Ryan: 13:15

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 13:18

Or even something that you value at Freedom that you maybe don't see somewhere else or just in general what you appreciate about Freedom?

Ryan: 13:26

Okay. A few things. So she has been so supportive to me, coming to her and feeling emotional, with my list of my challenges and

Joe Ogden: 13:45

Take your time. You're fine. Thanks.

Ryan: 13:50

She has been willing to just sit and listen to each each of the things. And a lot of therapists don't have the capacity to sit through that, And she was she was just she's like, I'm here. Like, just tell me what your pain is, and I'll I'll listen to each one. And we had even been through, like I don't know if it'd been a year and a half or 2 years. Like, she hadn't even heard all the stories yet.

Ryan: 14:25

We were just still chipping away, and Yeah. I was still working through each one. And she just gave me the space to share what each of the problems are. I was like, okay. Like, what can we do about each one?

Ryan: 14:39

And so we just sort of took on we just took took on this philosophy of chipping away. And the two things at the top of my list, which are my back pain and my hips, are are the most challenging ones. We usually spend the most time in all my therapies over the years, like, on those. So we're doing what we can there, and we're also working on other stuff that bothers me less, but has been persistent for many years. Like, for example, I've I've had a a pain in my hamstring.

Ryan: 15:10

At one time, about 5 or 6 years ago, I went to a therapy, at another place, and I just told them about my hamstring. I was like, I didn't tell him about any of my other problems. This is, like, this is sort of a minor thing for me. And I was, like, I just if that felt better, that'd be great. And so we worked on that for some months and and that it did not improve, like, it always does.

Ryan: 15:36

And and my list of issues just it gets bigger. I go to therapies, and I come out with a longer list than I started with. So I got to telling the story of my hamstring to Nina, and, we did some dry needling there. And, you know, it was some sessions. I don't know if we did that 6 or 8 times, and then that it went away.

Ryan: 16:01

I've never had a pain that went away. Like, some my list got shorter. One of the things went off the list. It was unbelievable. I was like, that pain is gone.

Ryan: 16:10

I had never had that before. So I think Nina's like she's really good with the dry needling. It's her capacity just to just to listen and be willing. Oh, let's see what we can do for each one. I don't know if I'd had before who could do that with me.

Ryan: 16:33

So those are just a few things.

Joe Ogden: 16:36

Have you seen other providers or just Nina?

Ryan: 16:38

I also worked with Nicole and Adrian.

Joe Ogden: 16:41

So 2 of the other nicest people that work for our company?

Ryan: 16:44

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 16:45

I mean, I would I would say Nicole and Nina, and this isn't against any other therapist here, but I would say the in my career as a PT, been PT school and people I've dealt with, I would put both of them at the top of the list for just nicest human beings that we interact with.

Ryan: 17:02

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 17:02

Again, not that's the nothing negative against anybody else. They just are at the top of the standard, I would say.

Ryan: 17:09

For me who like I said, that's one of the criteria that I look for in a PT. Like, I'm looking for people who are invested in me and care about me. Because, again, mostly I go and I do the stuff that they tell me, and I do that for a year. And at the end, there's no acknowledgment that it didn't work. There's not, like, a communication thing there, and that feels terrible.

Joe Ogden: 17:30

Right. It

Ryan: 17:31

feels like, well, why why did I even start with you? Right. Like, you just pretended like or you did your best. Like, I respect you for that. Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 17:37

But I really wish you

Ryan: 17:37

would've just sent me to someone else who actually

Joe Ogden: 17:39

knows what

Ryan: 17:39

they're doing. You know, I can see this is my trauma coming out. Yeah. But that's been most of my experience with PT.

Joe Ogden: 17:48

What would you say for someone who because I feel like a lot of people kinda get into this this cycle of and I think sometimes even too as physical therapists, like, if if I'm seeing you and you're not getting better, I think sometimes we assume that you're not doing what you're supposed to at home, and we put a lot of the not the blame, but just deflect onto the patient. I think that happens as a whole.

Ryan: 18:12

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 18:13

And I think at the same time, we don't look at ourselves and be like, you know what? Maybe there's a different method that works for this patient. I'm gonna give it to someone else because we wanna help so bad. Right. What would you say is something that can motivate someone else who's probably in your shoes

Ryan: 18:27

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 18:28

That is still looking for that that ticket that is trying to improve everything.

Ryan: 18:34

I mean

Joe Ogden: 18:36

because for you seeing all

Ryan: 18:37

these numbers I'm so sorry for what you're going through because this is the industry is hard. Like, it doesn't work. It didn't work well for me

Joe Ogden: 18:47

Right.

Ryan: 18:47

For all the years. So I'm I'm so sorry that you're going through this is the first thing that I say. I understand how you feel. What worked for me was the interviewing process and not just going somewhere and getting, you know, Molly who just graduated from PT school and is gonna do her best to help me, but I'm I'm sorry. I've already seen 25 PTs.

Ryan: 19:13

Like, she's not the person for me. So I knew what I was looking for, and I was willing to try again. And so, I would encourage people to go around and interview.

Joe Ogden: 19:29

And are you looking at more, like, personality? Like, making sure that you tie with, the therapist, like, personality wise? I think empathy is is is so crucial in my opinion. I think it's something that we talk about a lot, but Yeah. To a certain extent, you either have it or you don't, I think, personality wise

Ryan: 19:47

Okay.

Joe Ogden: 19:49

From a provider standpoint. Yeah. Were you looking for any, like, trigger word as far as, like, skill that I that a therapist would have? Like, I dry a needle or I do myofascial release. Like, were you looking for any of that that you knew?

Ryan: 20:03

No. No. I was looking for someone that looked competent and not afraid of me.

Joe Ogden: 20:10

Yeah.

Ryan: 20:11

And yeah. It I I definitely I can see in their face the fear when I tell my story. I was like, oh, I can tell right away. This is not person for me. Right.

Ryan: 20:20

So and I used to just go through because I would feel bad. I don't wanna hurt that person's feeling. It's that. And and a person who could accurately describe, okay. This is what I think you got going.

Ryan: 20:31

This is how what we're gonna do together might be different than what you've done before. Yeah. Communication and the empathy, I'd I'd say those are the main factors. Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 20:43

Now now that you're decreasing your frequency at seeing Nina

Ryan: 20:46

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 20:46

How often are you seeing the other providers?

Ryan: 20:50

So Is it once

Joe Ogden: 20:51

a month too for everyone else?

Ryan: 20:52

I still meet with the other, with my pain psychologist. We do every once every 3 weeks.

Joe Ogden: 20:57

Okay.

Ryan: 20:57

And during the 3 years, it's been once every 2 or 3 weeks.

Joe Ogden: 21:00

Okay.

Ryan: 21:01

And the other therapist, this is it's a trauma for me, but she quit in the middle of our therapy, so I no longer meet with her.

Joe Ogden: 21:10

Okay. What would you say is, you know, kind of your are you doing quote, unquote exercises every day to make sure that you're maintaining the progress that you made? Or have you kind of found, you know, your rhythm is 3 or 4 times a week doing x, y, and z? Or could just tell us a little bit of kind of about your, what you figured out is the best, Yeah. You know, protocol that's worked for you.

Ryan: 21:31

Okay. So, I mean, a lot of this is centered around getting understanding of what my condition is, what what pain is, why the body produces it. I have a particular condition where my body learned to create pain for me in particular situations, postures, and activities. So I spent about 6 months researching pain neuroscience and understanding how that information applies to my particular condition and trying to be convinced that this new approach is something that's different than something that I've done before. And it was hard to be convinced because I've been told many other things about what my condition is.

Ryan: 22:20

So these are just more people telling me more things that I'm gonna do what they tell me to do, and I'm I'm just not gonna get better. So it was about 6 months of, like, researching, and and trying to be convinced, was part of it. In the midst of that, with Nina here, I'm just going through and telling stories of the different potty parts and and looking at, okay, this is what we could do here. This is what we could do there. And getting going with an exercise program, which I've I've been doing exercise the whole time.

Ryan: 22:59

I've been doing nothing but exercises for my 15 years of physical therapy. So when we started with, like, a few simple things, again, the thoughts are like, this is so stupid. I've done this a 1000000000 times, this same exercise. I'm just gonna have the same result. Like, why am I even doing this?

Ryan: 23:15

So I I could recognize those as thoughts and persist in in the midst of that. And just and just keep going with that even though there's so much internal resist. And another big facet of my treatment program has been what I call pacing programs. So the first one I set up is a walking program, and I started walking. The 1st week, I did, 5 minutes three times.

Ryan: 23:42

And then the next week, I would do 5 minutes, 6 minutes, and 5 minutes. And then the next week, I would do 6, 6, and 5. So just increasing one of the walks by 1 minute. And that, again, I had the same internal resistance that comes up. Yeah.

Ryan: 23:58

It makes sense, of course. Like, you can't walk, so you start super low and you really slowly build it up. I've done this a 1000 times. You know. So, like, why is this gonna be any different?

Ryan: 24:06

I'm just gonna do all the work. I'm gonna get to the end of the therapy. They're gonna quit on me, and I'm gonna start again. So again, I'm just persisting in the midst of very little, expectation that there'd be, like, a different result in this. So that was my walking program.

Ryan: 24:27

And the reason that the pacing was effective this time is that there's a background in pain neuroscience and understanding of why pain is being produced in the midst of me doing this challenging activity. So I I get pain every time I do all the exercises. And I learned the technique of programming my body not to produce the pain, but that took months years. So I'm doing all the painful stuff and I got a walking program and I've had 10 or 20 or 30 different pacing programs. And I do those all day, every day, all day, every day painful stuff.

Ryan: 25:10

So now, I'm in the thick of it. I'm doing all day, every day painful stuff. A year, a year and a half in, no positive results really. Most of my mind is saying this is stupid. I'm getting nothing out of this.

Ryan: 25:25

And that was hard. I'm just like going through what I always do in therapy, which is work super hard and get nowhere. And it just took a lot of time for my body to for me to be able to shift the pain that my body is creating for me and to and to reduce it. So I don't know. That's a bit about my treatment protocol.

Joe Ogden: 25:51

So it kinda sounds like to and correct me if I'm

Ryan: 25:54

wrong Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 25:54

But it sounds like it and I think sometimes we get in this habit of, you know, I'm seeing you and you've had all these different treatments and some stuff works, some doesn't. And then we come in and be like, okay. I'm gonna do this magic exercise with you. It's gonna fix you. Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 26:12

And I I don't think that exists. And it sounds like your program is exactly my philosophy that I I really believe is that there's not a magic 123 that you can do to magically solve everything. It's just this big encompassing treatment plan that it constantly evolving based on, you know, various factors that we're just looking to just slowly improve things time after time after time after time and treat the whole body.

Ryan: 26:43

Right.

Joe Ogden: 26:44

I mean, I'm I'm a big fan of the pain psychology in general. I actually have a I think the July 17th, I think. It's a Tuesday night I'm talking in Mequon about I

Ryan: 26:54

saw that.

Joe Ogden: 26:56

Pain education because I think it's so important.

Ryan: 26:58

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 26:58

A lot of us are afraid of it because then Yeah. We it's it's sometimes assumed that if you and I talk about it, me as a therapist, you as the patient, that if we talk about pain, and just kind of the why behind it that you're gonna start perseverating on the pain and think everything's painful.

Ryan: 27:14

Right.

Joe Ogden: 27:15

I disagree with that. Yeah. In my my opinion, if I can give you as much education as I possibly can and then we can figure out what's going on together, I think that's more successful. Which I think, based on how you've described everything, is how you found success is the more that we've given you Yeah. From all providers.

Ryan: 27:33

Right.

Joe Ogden: 27:33

Now we finally had a breakthrough on improving your your life.

Ryan: 27:38

Yeah. So, I mean, the pain neuroscience aspect is something that I hadn't been introduced to in all the previous physical therapies, and that was definitely an essential piece of my improvement. So, yeah, it was I I now know a lot about how it is for you guys to share that information. That's really hard to share. And I just know based on hearing all the stories that patients' responses to that is not always positive.

Ryan: 28:18

And so I was trying to take it in as openly as I could, and I knew a lot of this information. It resonated with me. I was like, this yeah. This feels like my story. And, but still in the midst of that, it's really hard for me to believe the okay.

Ryan: 28:35

This is my thing. Just like, you know, it's I have a long history of that. You know?

Joe Ogden: 28:39

And I think it's one of the hardest things to, educate about.

Ryan: 28:43

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 28:43

I think it's such great information. Yeah. Whether it's somebody listening or if if you know of anybody, anybody that knows how to give it really well without any hiccups, let us know. Because I think everyone runs into an issue at some point.

Ryan: 28:55

I also I have interest in sharing this information with people because now this is this information is reaching more providers now. But for providers, it's like, you you read about it in a textbook or you went to a workshop. I have, like, a lived experience

Joe Ogden: 29:11

Yeah.

Ryan: 29:11

That I know what it's actually like for the condition to affect your body this way and to work through the process of retraining the body. So I have, like, a certain credibility that you don't, and that can lend itself to someone who's going through this this process.

Joe Ogden: 29:37

That I would a 100% agree with. Yeah. I think it's and I I think that's the trouble part of of any sort of health care. I think it's one thing to understand the theoretical presentation of something, which most times things fit the theoretical. We treat everything that we learn and it it works great.

Ryan: 29:55

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 29:56

But then what do we do when it doesn't? Yeah. I don't think anyone's figured that one out yet. Yeah. But when they do, it's like, oh, this is good.

Joe Ogden: 30:04

Yeah. And I I I a 100% agree with what you just said.

Ryan: 30:08

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 30:08

For any provider. I don't necessarily think it's just, you know, physical therapy or MD or dietitian, psychology. I mean, I think they all fit in the same category, which makes the human body really tough.

Ryan: 30:19

It it is. Yeah. I mean, I I I sort of empathize with what you're saying, like, based on you know, like, you're you're doing your best to, like, treat people. At the same time, I have and I can't I can't not see you in a particular way because my involvement in the industry that you're in has been, a negative impact on my life, and I'm still trying to process the way that participating in this industry has affected me.

Joe Ogden: 30:48

Yeah.

Ryan: 30:52

And at the same time, I had in the last 3 years with freedom, this is this is the one time it went amazingly well. You know? So that's part of my experience too.

Joe Ogden: 31:05

I think it's been awesome. Ryan Yeah. Let's finish on, give us one piece of advice to maybe a patient who's listening who, you know, is unsure of whether Freedom's the right place for them. Yeah. Just give a piece of advice or even, you know, what sets Freedom apart in your experience from patient perspective.

Joe Ogden: 31:17

There was one other thing that I haven't mentioned so far, and that's just coming into the office. It's a wonderful space,

Ryan: 31:31

And, for me, most of the time, it's been Lisa and Steph, and Mallory's there. And, you just like, there's a welcoming vibe of joy and happiness here, and that does not exist at any I've been through 29 rounds of this. That doesn't exist at the other places. It's you you sit and and wait for, you know, the provider to come out. But here, you're having fun before the therapy begins, and it's the office staff that that does that.

Ryan: 32:04

So that's that's a super I play guitar, and they learned that I play guitar. So I I'd brought my guitar in a bunch of times, and I sing

Joe Ogden: 32:11

songs about that.

Ryan: 32:12

I sing songs when I come in. Yeah. So there's that and, I mean, I don't know. I for for me, Nina is just an amazing person who is able to transform my life. And, I don't know if all the maybe all the therapists here can do can do that, but, I mean, for me, she's the one person who is I I found someone who can help me.

Joe Ogden: 32:49

Nina's fantastic. And Nina's a great therapist. You know, I think she's a fantastic human being, you know, a great coworker as well. I mean, I I think Nina's one of those people that regardless if she let's say today she just decided to leave and go to a new company, I don't think anyone here could say anything negative about her.

Ryan: 33:09

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 33:09

Both, coworkers and patients. I mean, she's been nothing but, you know, fantastic with me too. So, I mean, I completely agree with you. But I I I think also your experience is what we try at least what I try to give at Freedom is when you come in, just that welcoming atmosphere, I think it's really enjoyable when patients, like, come in and know each other too. I mean, yes, it's it's a it's a private place.

Joe Ogden: 33:38

It's health care related. Right. But everyone's here just to try and improve their life. I think it's good to recognize people, say hello.

Ryan: 33:45

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 33:46

I don't want anyone to be feel intimidated to come in here because all we're trying to do is just help people.

Ryan: 33:50

Yeah. And I

Joe Ogden: 33:51

think we do a pretty good job with that.

Ryan: 33:53

Yeah. It's it's a community here that again, it doesn't exist at the other places. I'm gonna say almost at all. And here, just by coming here, I I met I've met the other therapists. I I don't even work with them, but, like, they know me and we wave and we set up and say hello, and I I see other people from the community that I know here.

Ryan: 34:13

And I've I've definitely never had a PT experience like that. And it yeah. It helps you feel comfortable and and at home, not sort of,

Joe Ogden: 34:24

just another patient that we're yeah.

Ryan: 34:25

Yeah. So

Joe Ogden: 34:26

Well, we're glad that we were able to help you, Ryan.

Ryan: 34:28

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 34:28

Your story is pretty remarkable.

Ryan: 34:30

Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 34:31

It's been fun. I mean, I've heard, you know, little bits and pieces through the grapevine. I mean, I've seen you here in the clinic. Yeah. But it's always nice just to hear, you know, patient's actual stories because you only hear so much Yeah.

Joe Ogden: 34:41

Not treating people. So we really appreciate you sharing as well. I know it's not the easiest either.

Ryan: 34:47

Yeah. Yeah. I'm happy to this has been part of my journey too. It's been, like, being able to share about my pain and my story. So this is just the next step for me.

Ryan: 34:55

So

Joe Ogden: 34:55

You might have to have you help me out with my my talk at the I'll have you look at my class for,

Ryan: 35:00

Okay.

Joe Ogden: 35:00

My Mequon thing and and see if, any personal stories could be added to it.

Ryan: 35:06

I like that. I'd like to do that.

Joe Ogden: 35:07

Well, Ryan, thank you very much.

Ryan: 35:09

Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you.

Joe Ogden: 35:11

If anybody has any questions about Ryan's story or has another story to contribute as well or would like to talk about their experience with physical therapy at Freedom, please reach out to us. And if anybody would like to be seen, we've got our clinic here in Fox Point, one in Brookfield, Grafton, and Mukwonago. Thanks for listening everybody, and we'll see everybody in next week's episode.