Joe: 00:00

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Freedom Talks podcast. This is your host, Joe Ogden. Today, we're gonna follow-up with Ben, who is a physical therapist out in Mukwonago, who has been with us now for a little bit. And what we're gonna do is just kinda catch up with him, see how it's going, and get kind of the summary of someone who's just starting a job, kind of he's taken some continuing ed courses and is kind of evolving his treatment technique based on who he's seeing and what he's falling into as far as what he likes to do and what he's seeing with patients.

Joe: 00:30

So I think it's really fun for young therapists or people still in grad school or even as well as patients to kinda listen to him and what he's going through and and kind of how he's just evolving as a therapist because as a young therapist, there's a lot that's being thrown at you and there's a lot that can go on. It's gonna be super interesting just to listen to his perspective and see how things are going. Without further ado, let's welcome Ben. All right, here we are with Doctor. Ben out in Mogwonago.

Joe: 00:56

Ben, what's up, man?

Ben: 00:58

It's going good, Joe. Thanks for having me on today. It's always a pleasure talking with you.

Joe: 01:03

Yeah, yeah. Now that you've been here what, two have you been here two months now? When did you start, December?

Ben: 01:08

I started November 22, so like three months actually in two days, I think.

Joe: 01:15

But How are things going now that you're situated? I mean, now, you know, you're three months out. I don't necessarily think you're new on the job anymore. Now you're kinda, you know, committed now. How are things things been going?

Ben: 01:27

It feels good. It feels good not to be just a new kid on the block and, like, trying to figure out, oh, where are the TheraBands and where do you get the towels or all that. Now it's always have the feet settled and all that. And a great team out here, makes it very easy to settle in quickly, but it's been a joy. And imagine only a joy coming forward and all of that.

Ben: 01:53

And the patients have been amazing and stuff like they're always a joy to talk with and help them rehab and get back to their goals.

Joe: 02:03

Now that you've gotten a couple, continuing ed classes already out of the way, haven't you?

Ben: 02:08

That is correct. Drew. I've done a dry nailing course so far and a TMJ through Mike, Karen, Geese, which was spectacular. And those have impacted how I treat even in the short time and stuff. Further continuing ed courses will continue to impact my treatment, the dry needling in particular really enhanced and made me value a lot more hands on side.

Ben: 02:38

Like, I feel the muscle here. Like, k. How does that actually feel in other top bands or tension here, or is it really in a different spine than even just how the body is all connecting referred pain patterns? Because not just because they're having pain in the shoulder, it doesn't mean that is always the issue. It can be as you know, but could also be the referred from other muscles in the surrounding area.

Ben: 03:05

It's made me really take even more broad approach and a more in-depth analysis of the patient's body and such as being like, Oh, yeah, this sounds very familiar. It sounds like why I've read in books and all of that. Let's just dive right into it. It's like, no. Make sure that all the muscles around it aren't contributing because then that can always negatively impact their rehab.

Ben: 03:30

Then the TMJ course, I actually just took that this past weekend and that's made me look at headaches in particular in a different light because those the TMJ temporomandibular joint is an overlooked joint unless you have issues with it, feel like. So it's very easy to not think about it, but it's made me think, oh, I should really assess that more thoroughly than what I happened to for some of the headaches that I get to treat.

Joe: 04:05

What are you needling the most?

Ben: 04:08

I would say the most common one is the upper trap and the sternocleidomastoid, and part of just the chronic stress, tension, and headaches relief, would be the big ones, for tension and headaches in particular. It's just always find the top bands and see where the most trigger points are and give the biggest relief for the patients, which I always love doing that because dry needling allows me as a clinician to provide relief that is not always the same way to achieve with just my hands and all that. Patients have reported that they've enjoyed it and haven't had any side effects, which is always a plus, which I mean, as the course and take skillfully assessing it to not just willy nilly needling like now. I take my time and do all the correct steps to know that I'm in the safe spots.

Joe: 05:14

What can you needle after the first class?

Ben: 05:18

I mean, they go through, like, some of the neck, like the sternocleidomastoid, upper trap, shoulders, biceps, triceps, wrist, extensors, flexors, quads, hamstrings, calf, QL. I think those are the main ones. Like the aconeus too, part of the triceps extensors or elbow extensors.

Joe: 05:49

Basically everything that's not above the rib cage, right?

Ben: 05:53

Basically, yeah. And then a few of the main muscles above the rib cage. Yeah, we did the PAC and teres minor, lat, rhomboids, not that you say that. There's a lot of muscles to remember.

Joe: 06:11

Yeah. Of course. And you just finished Mike's class. What do you think of Mike's?

Ben: 06:15

I mean, so much knowledge. He is he knows team Dre so well. And, I mean, even just in general, he's a amazing guy. First times I was able to talk with him in person and see him, and it's just when people say he's amazing, it's accurate. But then the course is just plethora of knowledge.

Ben: 06:41

I never thought I was lucky actually to have a glimpse of his education and teaching because he came and did, a two hour course at Carroll on TMJ. And I thought that was amazing and a lot of knowledge. And now having an entire weekend, two full days with him and him teaching us, It's just amazing how much that is to the TMJ and how much it can influence and pack for the rest of the body and health. And if it's overlooked for Gon, how it can be the nagging factor that patients so desperately need to be addressed to get them back to where they want to be.

Joe: 07:26

Are you seeing TMJ already?

Ben: 07:29

I have not had a TMJ, like, patient on my schedule yet. I'm looking forward to it, and we'll continue, like, practicing on Wes and Abigail and other coworkers and stuff and even family members at home to keep the skills fine tuned and always continue, like, addressing them, making sure that they're sharper and as they should be. And because there's so much knowledge that goes into the TMJ and fine, as you know, like this with reduction, disc without reduction, with limited opening, without limiting opening, and just all the fine details to stay on top of.

Joe: 08:16

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think and you're you're in an interesting spot, so I think we'll have to, you know, reconvene after you take some more classes, but I haven't taken, the dry dealing yet, but my opinion, I think, as as a whole, just based on how they have things set up, they do a great job. Mike's class, I think for now, obviously, Mike is very generous for us because we work for him that he covers the cost of the course. Mhmm.

Joe: 08:45

But for those that come in to take it, I think it's I think it's $750 I think to take this You'll see as you start taking more classes and kind of just seeing what else is out there, classes I think in general are anywhere from $500 to $1,500 Usually the one that's $1,500 you're probably gonna get a certification or some sort of credentialing out of it. But I've taken classes that are $1,000 $1,500 Mike gives you a ton more value, for what you're getting. It's very in-depth and make sure that you you kinda treat everything. I mean, I really think his does a great job. It's very overarching.

Joe: 09:30

There's a lot of dense information in there, but I think the value that you're getting for that price is unbeatable.

Ben: 09:38

Yeah. No. I kinda agree more with you, and he references so many studies where it's not just, oh, based on my experience, I wanna teach you this. No. He's like, here's the study.

Ben: 09:52

This is why we do it this way, and he is continually consulting with other experts in the field, even outside of The US to be on top of his game so that then us who get to be able to take his course know the most up to date information and not just from what's studied here in The US but internationally, which, like you said, is worth so much.

Joe: 10:18

Yeah. What's next for you? I mean, you got two classes out of way now. I mean, where where are you going now?

Ben: 10:25

It'll probably be the dry neolium level two and three courses to get those done and get that certification out of the way and do that just while I'm still on the game because there's, like, a test that that can take at the end of the third one to get the letters at the end of my name. Not that that's why I'm I'm not doing it for the letters and stuff like that, but I'd rather do it and I'm doing it just to obtain the knowledge because they continue and cover so much detail about it where, yeah, it's impacted the way I practice just from the level one. So I can't wait to take those. But then last, he has told me about some courses that I really wanna take, which those ones are through, like, Aspire. And he was just raving about how in-depth they get, which kinda seems like how in-depth Mike gets on to Team Drake.

Ben: 11:27

They do that for each joint. So there's endless courses that I wanna take.

Joe: 11:33

Yeah. Now that you've got obviously, the TMD course is a little more specialized. Like, not everybody's coming in for jaw pain. Right? But how has the dry needling course, which I think is a big one, kind of changed how you treat or just changed the way you look at things?

Ben: 11:54

Yeah, it's made me make sure that I thoroughly look at each patient and what they are saying and not just, Oh, they come in with knee pain. I'm thinking this, so I'm just going to jump right into this. It's like, No, give the entire picture completely and really get your hands on and skillfully assess the muscles for the top bands and such as being like, Oh yeah, that muscle feels good. That muscle is a little tight. No, go fiber by fiber and assess the entire muscle to know which ones are contributing to the patient's symptoms and which ones are less likely contributing to them.

Ben: 12:38

Then how to address those muscles, not only in the manual dry needling aspect, but then even in exercises. Oh, if your sartorius muscle was tight, do exercises that specifically engage that to increase the blood flow and help it heal instead of just doing basic leg exercises that don't specifically target that individual muscle. Not that we can bias one muscle solely, but those activities, as you know, can more primarily involve that muscle.

Joe: 13:20

What have you been kneeling the most?

Ben: 13:26

I've been nailing the most, the upper trap in SCM with, like, headaches and just the upright, like, shoulder hiking position just from people always being forward on computers and online schooling at desk jobs and all of this. So trying to get those muscles to relax and just to help with the stress from life that everybody has because life is not easy on a day to day basis and just being able to help relieve some headaches and decrease the frequencies and decrease the intensities of the headaches because of just particularly, like, the SCM is a common muscle for headaches, but it's overlooked. Then like that, the SCM's referral pain pattern, I'm not sure if we can see on the video for like the podcast and stuff, it like wraps around your eyes and stuff where I've had patients tell me like, Yeah, I get this headache and it wraps around my eye. Then I show them that picture and they're like, Oh my goodness, that's exactly my headache. So then being able to address that muscle, it's like no greater feeling as a therapist in a way to be like, hey, here's what is very likely causing your symptoms.

Ben: 14:51

And they're like, yeah, that is mine. Then being able to specifically address and then seeing the results, It's one of the joys of the job.

Joe: 15:01

Yeah, for sure. Now that you've got two courses under your belt and kind of just seeing where this field can go, have you changed your thought process on how you treat people or even the patient demographic that you're finding more interest in as you start treating more?

Ben: 15:19

I've learned to continually reassess a lot more and to not just get gung ho on one way of doing things, but then to think like, is it muscles that are limiting the motion or is it the joint capsule or is it referred pain that is causing the issues or is it just like general stress kind of impacting the tension of the muscles? Is it their body mechanics posture, how they sit while they drive? Which made me reanalyze how I wanted to practice while in school and stuff and then having the little exposure in these first few months and then continuing to be like, hey, there's always, by the way, is a new ways of practicing and being a clinician and providing relief for patients that there's endless ways to continue going. But yeah, it's really made me take more time and not rush things so they have the best picture and most clear picture of a patient, how their body is presenting that day because they could change the next time they come in.

Joe: 16:33

Yeah. Now, I know in your past, you've had a pretty pretty, significant history with PT with an injury, to your elbow. Let's dive into that a little more. Let's, you know, kinda take take us back to that and then just kinda talk about kinda your rehab, journey, with physical therapy with that and how it relates to kinda what you're doing now.

Ben: 16:55

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I had a snowboarding accident roughly four years ago, which then ended up having surgery on it, like within a couple weeks where I had a total radial head replacement and plane screws put on my right form, which is my dominant hand. So then I had therapy extensively following that surgery, which got me insight into more of what the field actually is instead of just thinking about it.

Ben: 17:29

It made me realize and know the value of getting treatment right away and stuff like pushing off and waiting because especially following surgeries, as you know, the muscles and everything like to just tighten up and compensations develop so quickly. Experienced firsthand how vital it is, get the treatment, perform even simple activities of daily living with a proper technique even if it takes me twice, three times as long so that down the road, I'm not doing compensations, which has been a big lesson learned for me.

Joe: 18:12

Yeah.

Ben: 18:13

And then it was continuing to give me problems where I had a second surgery this past August and all of that where then had more therapy on that. And, now being further along, graduated in school and all of that, giving me a different insight for how to do and even just the communication and how we talk to patients and stuff, because it's not just always about, oh, do this exercise or do this trigger point release. No. We as a patient, like, when I was there, it's like, I want you to hear my side of the story and hear my what I'm struggling with and help me and stop being like, yeah. Yeah.

Ben: 19:06

I should do this exercise because then, like, I could tell them. It's like, that's what I wanna provide to patients, and it's easier said than done. Sometimes when you have, like, a packed schedule or 10 other things going on in the day, but it just made me really sit back and be like, okay. What is the biggest thing, and how can I best help hear them as a person, not just as a shoulder injury or elbow injury, but to get them back to where they wanna be and what can I do to reassure them Because it's a I was very frightened the first time around, like, for rehab because, like, yeah, I was younger and stuff, and it's like, will I get my motion back? Will I be able to play volleyball again?

Ben: 20:01

Will I be able to snowboard? So it was, like, a very scared full time where it's, like, now I value so much of, like, I help patients to not be in that heightened, scared state for a long time. Do I always do the best job and stuff like that doing that? No. And will patients still be scared?

Ben: 20:25

Yes. At times, but it's like I see how valuable it is to help calm that.

Joe: 20:33

Somebody should answer the phone a month ago.

Ben: 20:36

Yeah. Is that you calling us, Joe?

Joe: 20:39

No.

Ben: 20:42

But yeah. K. And then it's just helped me talk with more therapists and get the insights of how to treat different injuries and globally. I've had a therapist where then they start to look at more of my back and shoulder and stuff where some of the previous therapists, they never even really looked at that. So then that reemphasized to me like, yeah, take the whole body into picture and consider upstream and downstream like joints and not just just the elbow or just the knee or it's the entire body and everything which seems easier said than done.

Ben: 21:27

It's simple but it's amazing how much is left untouched.

Joe: 21:32

Yeah. How would you say so you you you've been through this big thing, right? How would you say that helps you kinda, you know, shape, you know, how how you treat now and just, you know, the way you look about things compared to what it probably could have been if you didn't go through something like this?

Ben: 21:48

Yeah. It's made me feel a lot more compassionate for where patients are because of knowing the pains and struggles that they come into are like going from one medical provider to another to another, seeking help and stuff. It's like yeah. I don't know the exact pain you're going through, but I know what it feels like to be in that state and would help me to be like, alright. Be on top of your game all the time.

Ben: 22:23

Don't just waste some time not that we have, like, do that. But it's like, no. Make it as most valuable and be on top of your game so that patients can get out of their pain and go back to performing their hobbies, whether that's hiking or crocheting or running a marathon or snowboarding or playing with their grandkids. There's bigger things where yeah, it's made me and then even for, like, myself, it's really made me reassess and think about my body mechanics for, like, when I'm doing this technique, like, okay. Am I hunched over?

Ben: 23:08

Am I really leaning over within it? Putting my body at risk of injury long term where it's made me really value the high low tables and adjust them and take the time to move it to protect myself so that then I'm better and able to better provide care because then I'm healthy instead of being dealing with injuries of my own.

Joe: 23:36

Yeah. Now how how long ago was that again?

Ben: 23:40

The original injury was like four years ago, and then had a second surgery in August of twenty four.

Joe: 23:51

Okay. Oh, August of twenty four? Yeah. So recently?

Ben: 23:56

Mhmm. Yeah. Like, six months ago or so.

Joe: 24:00

Are you are you feeling fine, like, treating and working with that being so recent?

Ben: 24:07

Yeah, I feel fine. I mean, that's kind of from even the first surgery and learning techniques throughout school. I learned how to perform different mobilizations, techniques, maybe in a slightly different way just because I had to to better control and protect my body, but I still do everything. And sometimes it's like, oh, then I just use the left hand more, change my body mechanics to make sure it's safe and not overstressing what was recently worked on with the elbow with it being ligaments involved or things like that to not put excess stress on them.

Joe: 24:59

Yeah. Yeah. Ben, anything else you wanna add in as we kinda recap just kinda how you gotten getting your feet wide, getting situated at Freedom, taking some classes, becoming a better clinician, helping more people enjoy more freedom.

Ben: 25:13

Yeah. I mean, I would say that it's been even more than what I can't thought I would be coming here where everybody's so nice and welcoming, they do care about us as individuals where like, you said, Mike waived the, like, course fees for us to learn more knowledge and stuff and to be able to better care and just being able to take all those containing education courses and the ones in the future to help me become a better clinician and provide better care. Can't wait to see how the way I practice continues to change just based on communication with coworkers and stuff and the continuing courses that I get the pleasure of taking.

Joe: 26:11

That sounds good, man. That sounds good. Any any more before we close this one up?

Ben: 26:21

Give me give

Joe: 26:22

me some advice for a young clinician. Give me some young advice for a third year PT student looking to get their first job. Give me something good here. Let's end on something positive. Give me some advice.

Ben: 26:32

Yeah. So if I was a third year PT student, the thing that I would do is that I would get my name out there to a lot of different companies that I am interested in and even to places that I'm not interested in to be able to get the interviews and practice that skill to know, like, okay, yeah, now you know all this stuff and it's not just only about being a physical therapist and your clinical skills, but then even how does the rest of the job go? How does it impact being able to provide for a family or the other activities that I wanna do? But it's like yeah. Now now is the time to really dig deep into the nitty gritty of the fun size of the jobs, but I would enjoy the process because it's a special time of the career, and there's always so much more to learn.

Joe: 27:37

Love it, man. That's good advice. That's good advice. Ben, thank you for sitting down for another podcast. We appreciate it.

Joe: 27:44

This would be a really good one.

Ben: 27:46

Yeah. It was a pleasure, and hopefully, we can do more in the future, Joe.

Joe: 27:50

Yeah. For sure. Sure. Alright, buddy. We'll talk soon.

Joe: 27:53

Okay?

Ben: 27:54

Alright. Have a good one, Joe.

Joe: 27:55

Alright. See you.